Ann and Sasha Shulgin

Being the huge inspiration for my research, I found several documented interviews with Ann and Sasha Shulgin that served as further motivation to continue on in study of drugs and other substances.

In the brief introduction that precedes this interview questions with Sasha at a conference, “Psychedelics may be best defined as physically non-addictive compounds which temporarily alter the state of one's consciousness. Sasha believes that the use of psychedelic drugs, including the minor risks involved (an occasional difficult experience or perhaps some body malaise) are more than balanced by the potential for learning. He has a strong preference for psychedelics over heroin or cocaine (especially crack), both of which he has tried, because he feels both tend to allow the user to escape from who he or she really is, even to the point, from who you are not. Heroin, in particular, he feels, creates a loss of motivation and alertness and under its influence, nothing seems important to him. Cocaine, on the other hand stimulates a sense of power, but also the inescapable knowledge that it is not true power” [MdmaShulg 1998].

Have you ever reached or come close to a plus 4 (++++) (by means of a drug, of course), if so, was it truly bliss and what produced it?

S: The +4 state is not simply a more intense place - it is a unique mental state that is a phenomenon unto itself. As Ann and I noted in PIHKAL, it is a rare and precious transcendental state which has been called a "peak experience," a "divine transformation" or a "state of Samadhi." It has been known to come from a drug experience, and it has been known to occur to a person spontaneously with no drug having been involved. I have had two drug-related reactions that I have called "bliss" or "timeless" or "omnipotent" states where I can move things without touching them and make cloud patterns assume shapes of my own choosing. But as extraordinary as they are, they are also exhausting and an eventual return to a normal "stoned" condition is truly appreciated [MdmaShulg 1998].

Having already watched the documentary, Dirty Pictures featuring Alexander Shulgin, and his wife, Ann Shulgin, I was intrigued by what he described as a “plus four” (++++) experience. What drugs have induced this? Apparently, no drug has to induce this at all, but Shulgin had achieved this level while in a drug-altered state of mind. I was most fascinated by the statement that, "I can move things without touching them and make cloud patterns assume shapes of my own choosing. With this information, I tried to discover what substances had elicited this (++++) experience.

Explain the different forms of contact high and how is it, do you think that it creates unintentional participation?

S: A contact high is an often unintentional joining into the spirit of a group interaction without the use of any drug that might have been used by the others. This is the very nature of man as a social animal. When those about you laugh, you laugh even though you may be unaware of just what, if anything, is funny. When there is a sad feeling about you, you can truly feel sad. The spirit of people in a rave scene, for example, can be contagious and, if there may happen to be a general use of psychotropic drugs, you may find the feelings contagious. I have often seen, in small groups, the behavior of a pet cat who just seems to know that something unusual is going on. It is an amazing animal model of the "contact high” [MdmaShulg 1998].

This is greatly amusing! Especially since I will embark on the occasional periods of sobriety where I do not take anything, I find that when I have attended a party where others seem to be high on various drugs, I am able to fit in and I almost even feel as though I am “under the influence” of something even if it has been days, weeks, or more since I may have previously ingested something.

Phenethylamines and tryptamines are the two basic building blocks of psychedelics, by boosting their neurotransmitter counterparts in the brain. Are you researching any newly-found substances that can stimulate other, similar transmitters?

S: The brain neurotransmitters that are most closely related to phenethylamine and to tryptamine are dopamine and serotonin respectively. I am not sure that I would use the word "boosting" as a description however! These brain neurotransmitters are clearly involved in the action of the psychedelic drugs, but the interrelationships are not as simple nor as well understood and the neurologists would have you believe. There is a chemically related natural neurological agent that has the potential of parallel chemistry; this is the material histamine. With a black-board and a good supply of chalk, one could parallel the chemistry of both the phenethylamines and the tryptamines and draw a host of compounds that might possibly be psychoactive. But this is a theoretical world without any present known promise, and must wait for some future enthusiast to champion it [MdmaShulg 1998].

I must agree with what Sasha Shulgin has said here. It really cannot be summed up that these drugs just effect “dopamine or serotonin” when I have personally experimented with drugs that effect those specific neurotransmitters and I believe there is a lot more going on than just what neurotransmitters are affected.

Although E is losing its popularity, it is still a regular at raves, which bearing in mind the fact that the magic and its "set" seem lost after the first few uses, presumably means that new users are coming into the fold all the time. By the way, do you consider yourself the "reinventor" of E (MDMA)?

S: The magic of the experience of MDMA ("E". Ecstasy) is sadly lost after the first few exposures to it, at least for most users. But it is keenly remembered, and the experienced user can recapture the memory of that magic by seeing a new person trying it for the first time. This is certainly one of the factors that has kept it alive and in demand over the years. Am I the "reinventor" of MDMA? I will settle for being called its step-father in that it was first invented many years before I was born. But as I was the first person to describe its remarkable properties in the scientific literature, maybe reinvention is an OK term [MdmaShulg 1998].

Ah, I’d like to agree and disagree with Sasha Shulgin in his above statement. I do personally feel a sense of being “brought back to a time” when I witness a new consumer of MDMA. However, I must say that even with continued use over years, I have still derived very beneficial and therapeutic effects from the substance, although similar to what Sasha has said about the “magic of the experience” being lost, I can agree that it has never felt like the first 3-5 times I’ve consumed the substance.

A secondary interview was found in Interview Magazine, called Love and Other Drugs. This interview was made after the documentary Dirty Pictures and helps answer some of the questions that I still had about the film.

“Although the gray-bearded, tremulous-voiced Shulgin looks every bit the wizardly counter-cultural alchemist, the film depicts him as a serious researcher intent on expanding the frontiers of the mind; to him, psychoactive drugs are a gateway to true self-understanding and a potential salve for depression” [IntShulg 2010?].

MdmaShulg 1998

21st Century Highs - The Future of Psychedelics

http://www.mdma.net/alexander-shulgin/21stc.html

Author: Dee, Date Published: Oct/Nov/Dec 1998

IntShulg 2010?

Love and Other Drugs

http://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/love-and-other-drugs/#_

Author: Michael Martin, Date Published: ???. My guess is 2010 because the article refers to him as 85 and he passed away at 88 in 2014.